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Are Mormons Christians?

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Former LDS Apologist [Apr. 9th, 2007|06:34 pm]
Are Mormons Christians?

I am a former Latter-day Saint Apologist who defended the Mormon Religion until I had a real true encounter with God. I know defend the Bible and the Christian Faith and am returning to the Apologetics and discussions. Through my various studies, I have found more and more information about the LDS Church that makes no sense, that is contradictory in nature and that it possesses some dangerous doctrines.

Right now, I am in discussion about the doctrine of Exaltation and I am finding that many Mormons are not honest and open about discussing such things because of their blinded skewed view.
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I love Mormons [Apr. 3rd, 2007|04:33 pm]
Are Mormons Christians?

[mood |hopefulhopeful]

I participated in this thread in christianity.  Try as I might, I can't seem to get across the point that I'm not trying to harm anyone, but that I care about people who are misled by the LDS leadership.  Here is an exerpt from the thread: 

I don't think anyone is going to get the "gold star" for getting every doctrine right. From my observation I could be a part of any number of denominations and be in unity with them, though I might not agree with everything taught there. There are small differences that do not matter. I do not think that is the case between Christianity and Mormonism. There are very large differences that are not something Christians should put aside for the sake of unity. The Bible does say, 2 Corinthians 6: 14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 17 "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you. 18 "And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me," Says the Lord Almighty.

You either believe the Bible, or don't, in my opinion. If there is any part of it you can't believe, you might as well not use it at all, because you will have no solid standard. I choose to have a standard. I would contend that anyone who doesn't believe in the Bible is not a Christian. They can claim to be Christians, but if they reject the Bible, they reject the very thing that teaches us of Christ. I am not God, so I have neither power or desire to take away someone's salvation. What concerns me is that someone may think they're saved when they've never had it in the first place. I agree that there are Mormons who appear to be very upright people, but only God knows the motivation of their hearts. Same is true of Christians.... some appear to be upright, but only God knows the motivation of their hearts. I don't think everyone who says they are a Christian is a Christian.

If the Mormons are depending on Joseph Smith for their salvation at all, they are different than Christians. I believe their are some Mormons who have no idea what the church really teaches and it's possible that they only know the good that is taught. I believe that God will bless those people. But it's a scary line and my only concern is that they are being deceived and may never see what they think they'll see, just as the suicide bombers of Radical Islam will never see the virgins they are promised.
I can't count how many times I've heard others say to me, "to each his own," or "why can't you just let people worship how they want to?"  I can't control anyone but myself, but I feel that if I did not at least make an effort to make a case for true Christianity that I would be a bad witness and there could even possibly be Mormon blood on my hands.  It's not about what I might get out of helping someone to true salvation, but what they get out of it.  I can only hope people will start to listen and understand.

Blessings to you.

x-posted to miraclelove
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Come on over... ? [Nov. 17th, 2006|03:55 pm]
Are Mormons Christians?
So I have been doing Mormon ministry for at least 8 years now. But frankly it has taken a back seat to my actual job which is in youth ministry. After spending a few months getting settled in a a new city and getting my barrings after 'my mission.' (An evangelical equavelnt of the LDS stint.) I am ready to jump back head in. I guess my question is, should I start inviting LDS missionaries over again? I need to get going but I'll fill you all in more about it later. Essecially, I have a new roomate who is interested in learning more about LDS ministry but I feel like it is a little unethical to ask them to come over when they fully expect the conversationas to be about converting to Mormonism, when in fact I am 'a ringer.' Thoughts?
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(no subject) [Nov. 17th, 2006|10:00 am]
Are Mormons Christians?
jzsfreak, welcome.

As you can see, not much action lately, but it's hard and has been discouraging for me at time. It's also been very encouraging, too. I hope you'll give testimony, but no pressure.

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Is Jesus a liar? [Jun. 4th, 2006|09:35 pm]
Are Mormons Christians?
I've had a lot of you say to me that there is no big difference... we both follow "Jesus" etc. I've told you that we don't worship the same Jesus. One of the main problems I have with your Jesus is that he starts out a man. Our Jesus, the Christian Jesus, was fully man and fully GOD. Jesus, Himself, says so in scripture and the Jews were going to stone Him for saying just that.

John 10:22-42Collapse )

So, is Jesus a liar?
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(no subject) [May. 21st, 2006|06:21 pm]
Are Mormons Christians?
is Mormon the best kind of Christian if so why?
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The Triune Godhead [Mar. 3rd, 2006|12:53 am]
Are Mormons Christians?
I was going to do a post on the Trinity, but then diabetes happened and I became preoccupied with that. I refuse to let the enemy get in the way of my life with illness and self-pity. I won’t let my mission be deterred. My mission is to spread the truth about Jesus Christ, my Lord, my Savior and my Life.

I knew I had to do this post when I read what my friend said recently in their essay, “We contrast that with the Jesus of the rest of the Christian world, who is considered fully God and fully human at the same time. He is one with God the Father. Ultimately they are the same entity, and we view them in different aspects and in different roles in a way that I'm not sure anybody really understands.” (The whole essay can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/questioning_lds/32613.html)

I agree with my friend. As humans… the created… I don’t think we can fully grasp the Trinity with our finite minds. But if we suspend our limitations and see God, the Creator, as unlimited, then we can grasp the idea of the Trinity. Another way to say Trinity is “Triune Godhead.” That is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal to God, singular. I will support this with Biblical scripture.

Colossians 2:9 (with some context) 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority…

Isaiah 43:10-11 10"You are My witnesses," declares the LORD,
"And My servant whom I have chosen,
So that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He
Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
11"I, even I, am the LORD,
And there is no savior besides Me.

The Lord tells the Israelites that they are His witnesses and that He is the only God and the only savior. There is only one savior and He is Christ. Jesus is God. I will support this with John 1:1-14, under the cut.

Also, I’ve had polytheistic people try to convince me that this scripture is talking about “idols” and not actual Gods. To them I would say that “idols” would include men. NO god will be formed … including man.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

Read more...Collapse )

This is not an exhaustive list of scriptures that support the Godhead, but I believe that they show a well-rounded contextual wholeness and agreement of the Bible to the issue of the Godhead.

Even so, if you have any to add, do so in comments. I’d be interested to see them.

Thoughts and comments welcome.

x-posted to h1s_songb1rd
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An Anonymous Post [Feb. 26th, 2006|07:56 pm]
Are Mormons Christians?
The essay below was written by a friend of mine who wanted me to post it here anonymously. None of these are my words, but I am very impressed by this. My friend wrote this essay after much careful thought, study and consideration. Feel free to comment.

Which God Do We Worship?

Latter-day Saint theology offers a departure from what came before in the teachings of Christianity about the nature of God and man. It's illustrative to compare the two.

The God we knew before Joseph Smith was eternal and pre-existent. He was not composed of matter, but of spirit. In fact he pre-existed all matter and created the earth and the rest of the known universe out of nothing.

Joseph Smith taught that matter and spirits were eternal. God did not create the universe, but basically found himself as a spirit in the middle of it, a man, just as we are. Through his superior ability to progress he became exalted, a God. And he was not alone; there were others, although he was pre-eminent.

The process of creating the earth was not the supreme being creating it out of nothing. The gods met together in council, as did the pre-existent spirits. They had a meeting where different plans were presented, and Christ's plan was chosen over Lucifer's. Then God and Jesus Christ organized the universe together, separate beings. Sort of like a father and a son restoring an old car together.

The God of the rest of the Christian world is not like us. He is superior to us, and does not share our basic physical nature.

The God of Latter-day Saint theology is fundamentally like us in that he is a personage of flesh and bone. He was once a man like us and progressed. He was better than us, but we can aspire to be like him, to have the things he has and to be like him, to create and populate universes without end.

Which Jesus Do We Worship?

Protestants often say that as Latter-day Saints we worship a different Jesus, and after a lot of reflection, what they say is true.

The Jesus we worship as Latter-day Saints is the one we read about in the New Testament. This portion of his life overlaps what other Christian churches teach from the New Testament, which might lead the Latter-day Saint to conclude that we worship the same one.

Where they differ is in their origins and in their future.

The Jesus Christ that Latter-day Saints worship is a created being. He is the son of our Heavenly Father, just the same as we are. Where he differs from us is that he was the first born, and he was more obedient. in Moses 4 and Abraham 3 Jesus and Lucifer both presented competing plans for the salvation of man, and God chose between them. He asked for volunteers and picked the one he thought best. What does this say about Jesus' status in the Kingdom of Heaven? To me it implies that Jesus is generally first among equals. Why was his plan chosen? Not directly because of his nature and status as Son of God, but because he was more humble and obedient. Heavenly Father asked for input and made a choice. He could have made a different choice.

This says to me that Jesus' basic nature is not that different from our own. In fact we refer to him as our elder brother. The thing that separates us is his character and obedience rather than his basic physical nature. That tells me that I can grow to become like him. In fact a major part of our doctrine that's different from other churches is our ability to become gods, create our own worlds, and institute the plan of salvation again in those worlds, where we will have our own spirit children, populate those worlds, and perhaps annoint one of them as a savior, much as Jesus was annointed savior of this world.

We contrast that with the Jesus of the rest of the Christian world, who is considered fully God and fully human at the same time. He is one with God the Father. Ultimately they are the same entity, and we view them in different aspects and in different roles in a way that I'm not sure anybody really understands.

This Jesus does not share our nature. He is God, with all the powers and abilities. He created the universe and established the system of justice and mercy that we labor under, yet he humbled himself to come to earth in order to save us from our sins, rules he himself made.

This Jesus is infinitely powerful, and is not like us, and we cannot become like him. He is not a created being like the LDS Jesus, but is co-eternal with the Father, sharing everything about him. His nature, his power, his authority.

He did not come to earth out of obedience to another authority. The maker of the rules died to pay the price for our inability to follow those same rules. He is not subordinate to God; he is fully God. His mercy is not subordinate to the justice of a higher God. It is fully equal, because they are the same being.

Which Man Are We?

As there is a difference between the God and Jesus of the rest of the Christian world and the God and Jesus of the Latter-day Saint world, so is there a difference in the nature of man.

Man in the rest of the Christian world is a creation in both body and spirit, unlike the Latter-day Saint model, where our spirits are eternal and the material of our bodies is and was organized out of existing materials.

The created man is eternally subordinate to the Creator. He is a completely different nature and completely dependent for where he came from, what he is, and what he will become. He cannot bridge the gap between God and Man on his own because of the imperfections of his nature. He lacks the capacity to perfect himself and be like his Father in Heaven. In a very fundamental way he needs Jesus Christ to bridge that gap because of his lack of capacity and the difference in his basic nature.

The Latter-day Saint view is one of eternal progression. Our basic nature is not that different from our Father in Heaven or Jesus Christ. He was just more talented than we were and progressed before we did. Similarly, Jesus Christ is not that different either. Just the first born, receiving status through his birth position in the family and his obedience to the will of the Father.

As our basic natures are not that different, we are not as dependent on God or Christ. Rather than needing them to bridge a gap we could not bridge on our own, we need them to make up the difference after we have expended our own best efforts. Theoretically we could progress on our own just as they did, since we share their natures. We're just not as proficient. We're still dependent, just not as dependent. Since we have the capacity to be like them it's our responsibility to perfect ourselves to the best of our ability, being fully self-reliant, only relying on them for that amount we can't accomplish on our own. We're constrained by time and distance, also. If we had an infinite amount of time and the personal influence of our Father in Heaven, possibly we could make the transition on our own. After all, He did.

The Choice

So, the choice is before us. Which God do we follow? Which Jesus do we believe? Which Jesus do we follow? Which one is speaking to us? Do we rely wholly on the merits of Christ for our salvation, and hence owe him our eternal gratitude? Or is his role more like a personal trainer, to show us the way to perfection and to help us through the last few exercises we need in order to achieve eternal life?

Is the end of our existence to live with God as an eternal child, or to prepare ourselves in every way to eventually rule our own worlds at his side?
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What is "Righteousness"? [Dec. 19th, 2005|07:53 am]
Are Mormons Christians?

I've been studying the Sermon on the Mount the last few days, and my definition of "righteousness" seems to be evolving. The Savior says in Matt 5:17-20 (ESV):

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

When Christ speaks of "righteousness", what do you think he means?

I'm asking this here, both because this seems to be a group of thinking Christians, and because I think the answer is pertinent to the theme of the group.
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Just a basic question. [Dec. 5th, 2005|07:58 am]
Are Mormons Christians?
[mood |curiouscurious]

This may seem straight-forward to some of you, but is important, and in fact central to the theme of this community.

Could those of you that watch this please respond to this simple dual-point question?

Are Mormons Christian? Why or why not?

**The reason for this is that as a member for most of my life, I know the religion quite well. I've read the Book of Mormon and the Bible (KJV) all the way through quite a few times. Regardless of "truth", regardless of whether mormons themselves are GOOD christians, the question seems to be a more technical one being posed by this community. And the Question, "Are Mormons Christian?" seems... odd. Beside the point, almost.**

Or perhaps, you can clarify that the question is whether the standard Mormon behaves like a Christian, or rather a good disciple of the Christ, rather than the religion as a group.
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