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Are Mormons Christians?

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Is Jesus a liar? [Jun. 4th, 2006|09:35 pm]
Are Mormons Christians?
questioning_lds
[h1s_songb1rd]
I've had a lot of you say to me that there is no big difference... we both follow "Jesus" etc. I've told you that we don't worship the same Jesus. One of the main problems I have with your Jesus is that he starts out a man. Our Jesus, the Christian Jesus, was fully man and fully GOD. Jesus, Himself, says so in scripture and the Jews were going to stone Him for saying just that.


John 10: 22 At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; 23 it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. R664 24 The R665 Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will F117 You keep us in suspense? If You are the F118 Christ, tell us plainly." R666 25 Jesus answered them, "I R667 told you, and you do not believe; the R668 works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. 26 "But you do not believe because you R669 are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear R670 My voice, and I R671 know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal R672 life to them, and they will never perish; and no R673 one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My F119 Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I R674 and the Father are one." F120

31 The Jews picked R675 up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; R676 and because You, being a man, make R677 Yourself out to be God." 34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your R678 Law, R679 `I R680 SAID, YOU ARE GODS'? 35 "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified R681 and sent R682 into the world, `You are blaspheming,' because I said, `I R683 am the Son of God'? 37 "If R684 I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the R685 works, so that you may know F121 and understand that the R686 Father is in Me, and I in the Father." 39 Therefore they R687 were seeking again to seize Him, and He R688 eluded their grasp.

40 And He went away again R689 beyond the Jordan to the place where John was first baptizing, and He was staying there. 41 Many came to Him and were saying, "While John performed no sign, R690 yet everything R691 John said about this man was true." 42 Many R692 believed in Him there.

So, is Jesus a liar?
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Comments:
From: h1s_songb1rd
2006-06-07 11:36 pm (UTC)
Just as Stephen saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God, He was also with God from the beginning and created everything. His existence didn't start when Mary bore Him. He always was. Just as God is the Alpha and the Omega, Jesus is the Alpha and Omega. That makes them One, beginning and ending.

You have a very limited view of Jesus, based on this comment. Jesus showed us how we must be, as He was our loving example. As that example He prayed, He lived an exceptional sinless life, and showed us the praise that comes from the Father aspect of Himself, and as He was fully human he dreaded the pain He would have to endure on the cross and He experienced the pain on the cross.

What was his nature after he was resurrected from the dead?

He had a new body of flesh and bone. God is All. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was born, I Am." That's how God addressed Himself to Moses. God is Spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is Jesus with a glorified body. God is the Holy Spirit that dwells inside our hearts (those hearts who will have Him). Sure, you can make it sound as illogical as you want, dear one. But God isn't limited by our logic.

In as far as the original comment, I've been told all kinds of different things by different Mormons. So I chose to go with what Dixon said because he's generally respected in the community. Unless you have a differing opinion than he does that you'd like to discuss, I don't see the necessity in going further on about what I'd said in the original post unless you're only aiming to discredit me.

Blessings.
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-06-08 01:15 am (UTC)
Welp I do not aim to discredit you or your beliefs as I take no pleasure in such. However you do seem to take satisfaction trying to discredit my beliefs if you'll pardon me making a frank observation. You can hardly expect me to remain silent as such though whether you realize it or not, you're really only strengthening my resolve so for that I thank you.

Also the only thing I wish to add to Dixon's comments is that he is referring to a sermon given by the prophet Joseph Smith and I have links to the original manuscript as it was written if you so desire to look through it. What we have today is actually written down by several people and put together into one. Like Brigham Young's journal of discourses it's not something that the prophet wrote down. Just wanted to point that out.

And if you would please...do not suggest that I am limited in my concept of how I view Christ for then you presume to know my heart. And you don't. Otherwise you too would be God :) You're only going on what I post and I don't post a tenth of what I really understand about God and my faith.

Also would you be surprised to know that there's some aspects of your comments that I agree with? Well yes. What are they? Well when you're ready to listen then I'll be ready to talk. Until then we can either throw scriptures at each other to prove ourselves right or we can start sitting down and reading them together and pondering God together. Which I quite frankly find much more satisfaction in rather than using my scriptures like a paintball gun in a game of who's-the-real-christian.

I try and follow Christ despite my faults which I know are many and I try to follow the example he sets. I acknowledge that everything in the bible that he states about himself and his Father is true and real and what he did for me, you and everyone in this world is true as well. If you can't accept that I am Christian then my friend the fault lies in yourself, not in what I believe and it is of little consequence to me. What matters is that I have good faithful Mennonites, Baptists, Born-Again Christians, Catholics both friends and family who love me dearly and defend my beliefs without having to compromise or belittle their own and quite frankly, what they think of me I hold in higher regard :)

Now I can go on and on if you like and talk this subject to death but quite frankly I don't desire to as I have already answered your questions many mnay times over and you have yet to really listen :) if I may be so frank as to say. Talking to oneself gets horribly weary sometimes. But the call is yours.










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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-06-08 01:24 am (UTC)
Also my friend who is not a member of this community but a member of my faith wished to add this observation

" I am perplexed by something.

The healing power of Christ can be felt by the heart that is open to His Healing and His Love. That love is what creates a powerful will for change in our own lives. It lifts us up in times of agony and sorrow. We feel His presence when we ask for it and sometimes when we don't, but we have this knowledge that he is always with us.

He is not just My Personal Savior...He's the Savior of mankind. Debating who believes in Him more ferverently or who is a better disciple of Him does nothing to change that. His presence is still in all of our lives.

Why must you split hairs about Him who loves all of us?

I've a very strong testimony of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So has Gardenia. I know from what you say, this_is_warmth, you have a testimony of Him as well...what I cannot grasp is why you must belittle our view of Him. Why you feel this need to 'prove us wrong'...because this communitity is more of a stomping ground and less of a debate oriented community.

I do not agree that Christ prayed to himself in the Garden...He never lied to us and for him to pray to His Father and really have it be himself is a lie by omission. Christ was sinless. Whyfore would he say He was returning to His Father if he was just going back to himself? Why would he ask 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do' if he was just asking that of Himself? If he was speaking to himself he need not have said a word on that subject.

I believe in Christ being the literal Son of God. Not only did He die on the cross for us and suffer for our sins in Gethsemane but He now Lives for us as well.

If He lives for us, why must we be so small in debating Him and not concentrating on that great sacrifice that was made on our behalf?"

by Hailerro. Thanks :)
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From: h1s_songb1rd
2006-06-08 01:52 am (UTC)
I'll answer your friend here, SG, but they're now a member, so let them know when I've commented, if they'd like to read the reply. Thanks.

Why must you split hairs about Him who loves all of us?

I don't see it as splitting hairs. The reason I don't see it that way is because I see your soul and the souls of every Mormon as highly important. The issue isn't God's love. God's love is for all. It's His will that none should perish. But the Bible says that more will perish than will be saved. I believe, by the way, that it's possible that some Mormons are saved. It's possible that you're saved. It's possible that SG is saved. But what you consider splitting hairs, I consider seeking and spreading truth. If I were involved in a counterfeit religion, I'd want to know and I want't someone to care enough to show me. It's not about being right. No matter what you believe, as SG put it so eloquantly above, it's of no consequence to me. However ... I do CARE. And I see myself as accountable to share what I know. Let's say you're not saved for the sake of discussion... if I didn't share what I know with you, your blood would be on my hands.

I've a very strong testimony of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So has Gardenia. I know from what you say, this_is_warmth, you have a testimony of Him as well..

You could be very well right. I hope you are.

I think I've answered your main questions about the community and my motives, etc., so I'll address the rest.

I do not agree that Christ prayed to himself in the Garden...He never lied to us and for him to pray to His Father and really have it be himself is a lie by omission. Christ was sinless. Whyfore would he say He was returning to His Father if he was just going back to himself? Why would he ask 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do' if he was just asking that of Himself? If he was speaking to himself he need not have said a word on that subject.

I believe in Christ being the literal Son of God. Not only did He die on the cross for us and suffer for our sins in Gethsemane but He now Lives for us as well.


Regarding the first italicized paragraph here, as I tried to explain to SG, I believe that Jesus was, knowing fully that there would be a Bible and that He was breathing what would be stated in it, showed us by example how He wanted us to behave and how He wanted us to pray.

I can't argue at all with your second paragraph, here. I think the issue is the nature of Christ and really knowing Him. He wants us to know Him, not just have a minimal understanding of Him, and He certainly wants us to know who He really is vs what He is not.

Thank you. :)

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