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Are Mormons Christians?

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[May. 21st, 2006|06:21 pm]
Are Mormons Christians?
questioning_lds
[kirisutonochi]
is Mormon the best kind of Christian if so why?
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: j0idvivr
2006-05-21 11:05 pm (UTC)

A good question...

Personally, I would hesitate to use the term "best", but I definitely think that it is the most accurate and true "version" of Christianity out there. I say this because we, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are the only Church on Earth to hold the Priesthood, which is essential for the ordinances required for eternal salvation.

I could go into many more reasons, but I think the Priesthood is the main reason.
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[User Picture]From: h_amber_guesa
2006-05-21 11:08 pm (UTC)

Re: A good question...

what do you mean?
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[User Picture]From: avallach
2006-05-22 01:37 am (UTC)
"Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19)."
(http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are_mormons_christian.htm)

I don't really want to get into a debate over the whole of the article, but the opening paragraph which I pasted above is pretty accurate. Years ago, one could take a tour of the temple in Salt Lake(?) and get a presentation on why Mormons are not Christians. More recently (the most recently I was there was about 12 years ago), if you took that same tour they keep telling you about how they are Christians, just like the others with some minor differences.

It just seems to me that the Mormon church's decision to start claiming to be Christians is, really, a PR move. By presenting themselves as a denomination of Christianity, more people would be willing to consider them when looking for a church.

I like this site too:
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/mormonism.html
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[User Picture]From: h_amber_guesa
2006-05-22 03:57 am (UTC)
yeah...i don't really consider mormons christians. i think it's just an attempt to make the religion more acceptable to the masses. it's a pretty twisted form of christianity.
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-22 10:55 pm (UTC)
yeah...i don't really consider mormons christians. i think it's just an attempt to make the religion more acceptable to the masses. it's a pretty twisted form of christianity.

I do not make such biased statements about your own faith. Be so good as to not make such statements towards mine. I personally have no problem with you disagreeing with certain points of doctrine but such a blanket statement is personally insulting to those of us who are LDS and do in fact live after the example of Christ whether you yourself believe it or not
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[User Picture]From: h_amber_guesa
2006-05-22 11:03 pm (UTC)
tell me how Mormonism is like Christianity.
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[User Picture]From: h_amber_guesa
2006-05-22 11:07 pm (UTC)
and excuse me if you thought i was rude. i did say "i think" before i stated it, which implies that it is my own opinion, and not a definite truth. i would like you to explain yourself, though, and explain how Mormonism is considered a Christian religion.
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-22 11:22 pm (UTC)
Indeed you did and I thank you for that. However I took more offense to the " twisted form of Christianity " statement which I felt was presented more as a fact then a opinion. Please be more specific next time.
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-22 11:18 pm (UTC)
Tell me first how the teachings of Catholicism is like the teaching of the Pentacostal faith. Or how Mennonites compare with Baptists. Or in fact just give me a run down of how all the different Christian faiths are like each other. I will expect full details of each doctrine, what they have in common and what they differ on and so forth.

Sorry it's not that easy and I'm not going to do your homework for you if you're not willing to do it for yourself :) Read both the Bible and the book of Mormon, compare the teachings of Christ presented in each set of scriptures and then take your ponderings to the Lord in prayer and there you will find your answer if you seek it honestly. That's how I figured it out. That's how you ought to figure it out. Good luck.
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[User Picture]From: h_amber_guesa
2006-05-22 11:45 pm (UTC)
hmmm it sounds like you don't know yourself.

For one, the Bible is the one and only Word of God, and adding the Book of Mormon, or any other book, and saying that it is the Word of God, is not true. The Bible says so.

Second, Christianity is based on the fact that there is ONE God.
Brigham Young-Journal of Discourses 7:333 "How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods."
You may believe in Jesus, but that is not enough to be considered Christian. Christians believe that Jesus is the one and only God of the universe.

Third, the Bible says that God is God, has always been God, and always will be God. (Dt 33:27; Isa 43:10; 44:6; 45:5, 21; 46:9; Mal 3:6; 1Co 8:4; 1Ti 2:5; Rev 1:8; 21:6; 22:13). Mormonism says God was an exalted man, that he learned truth and pursued it enough to "become" God. They can't both be right.

Fourth, Mormonism says man was always here with God, not created at some point in time. The Bible says Adam and Eve were made and, well, you know the story. Also, Mormonism teaches that men can become like God, that man can somehow work his way up to become a god ourselves. Nothing like this is in the Bible. We can never be on the same level as God.
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-23 01:37 am (UTC)
Oh I do know. I'm just waiting and hoping for you to figure it out :) but if you insist...

1) The scriptures that say not to add upon the Word of God were 1) if you know your history admonitions to the scribes translating the scriptures, that they were not to add upon anything that wasn't already there so as to not cause screw-up in the way something was translated which unfortunately happened a lot back in the days when literacy was merely a matter of being able to sign your name and 2) look where some of those scriptures are at and the books of scripture that follow them. The books that make up the Biblical canon weren't all written at the same time. Ergo if you are to follow that warning then you have to throw out most of the present-day Bible. Deut. 4:2 " Ye shall not add upon the word which I command you " If we are to take that literally everything written after Deutoronomy has to be thrown out, including the New Testament

2) Yes. There is only one God of the Universe, we call him Heavenly Father. There is only one Christ who is Jehovah of this world we live in. There is only one Holy Ghost. Please don't throw the Brigham Young discourses at me. Every anti is fond of using that against Mormons and quite frankly it's amature-ish to use them. Try reading all of them not just the juicy bits

1) Brigham Young not being formally educated worded eternal and difficult to explain concepts in the best way that he knew how and 2) he did not actually write them...they were written down by scribes as he spoke them in meetings. I suggest you ponder all the discourses and attempt to understand the spirit behind them not just the words and then we'll talk about them in another post.

3) You base that solely on Lorenzo Snow's stanza and most of the time the second part of it is conveniently left out " A son of God like God to be/ Would not be robbing Deity " I offer this for pure speculation...When Christ was born upon this earth was he not physically a Man clothed in flesh and in that sense like us? That is my understanding of what Lorenzo meant...that he was speaking of when Christ came to the earth. What happens after this life, well I don't know and I don't expect to know until after I die. But I believe myself to be a child of God and as such, entitled to grow and learn and emulate my Father as most children do. " Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect " Matthew 5: 48 How else would it be possible to be as perfect as God is?

4) To deny that is to deny the immortality of our souls which dwelled with God from the beginning and that is what mormons mean when they say that we were always with God. Our bodies were created by God yes, as a place where our souls can dwell.

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[User Picture]From: h_amber_guesa
2006-05-23 02:15 am (UTC)
does Mormonism not teach that God was a man who followed the law and was "perfect" enough to become god of this world? my understanding was that if a person is good enough in this life, he can become a god in the after-life. am i mistaken? and what are you trying to say in #3? is that in support of what i'm saying?
i don't know everything about Mormonism, and get quite confused when talking to different people about it because some believe different things. so sorry if i'm wrong, but set me straight on what you believe.
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[User Picture]From: h_amber_guesa
2006-05-23 02:20 am (UTC)
in addition, this is completely unimportant in the sense that Christianity is based on a personal relationship with Jesus, which is a personal decision. you can call yourself whatever you want, but if you don't have that, you aren't a "Christian".
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-23 04:49 pm (UTC)
Yup. Actually I do. Glad we cleared that up :) Going back to work now.
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[User Picture]From: h_amber_guesa
2006-05-23 04:50 pm (UTC)
okay...but does that mean the Mormon church teaches that?
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-27 04:21 pm (UTC)
It depends on what you yourself define as a personal relationship with Christ :)

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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-22 10:53 pm (UTC)
I respectfully disagree on the stance of being a practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What is put forth in both articles and your own personal statements are based on opinions, personal interpretation and taking quotes from past leaders, prophets and scriptures completely and wonderfully out of context. I ask that you be so good as to state it as your own personal opinion on the matter.

In my personal opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with PR otherwise we would have been pulling that move long before now when the church was way more unpopular and way more in need of members. It perhaps has more to do with a gentle emphasis to people like yourself who persist in stating that Mormons are not Christian and that we worship a different Christ, since you don't seem to believe what we've been telling you all this time in the mere fact of including the name of Christ in our church name, the sacrament we partake of every Sunday which begins " O God the Eternal Father, we ask in the name of thy son Jesus Christ..." in our testimonies in which we proclaim Christ to be the blessed Savior, the son of the Almighty God who suffered in the garden of Gethsamane, who was raised up on the Cross to suffer more unspeakable agonies, who died and was buried and then resurrected, who atoned for the sins of the world, in our prayers which begin with " Dear Heavenly Father " and end " In the name of thy son Jesus Christ amen "...should I go on?

Why do we need to stand and shout to the rooftops that we are Christian when we have always believed ourselves to be so from the very beginning? It has always gone without saying only it seems people have gotten more and more confused about it here lately.

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[User Picture]From: avallach
2006-05-22 11:53 pm (UTC)
My point was that in the past, Mormons have very clearly & deliberately stated that they were NOT Christians. Now you're saying you are. What changed?

And starting a statement with "It just seems to me" should tell you I'm stating my opinion.

"However, in reference to whether he believes 'in the traditional Christ' [President] Hinckley responds: "No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they [non-Mormons] speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages" (LDS Church News Week 6/20/98, p.7)."

It seems to me (ahem) from what I've read & people I talk to that the Christ that Mormons pray to etc is not the same one I do.

PS: What does it matter if I'm quoting a past leader or a current leader? Do things change that often?
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-23 12:57 am (UTC)
Each prophet speaks for his dispensation. It doesn't have anything to do with doctrine changing. It has everything to do with putting statements in the context of the time period they are spoken in and people tend to overlook that a lot in favor of really sticking it to Mormon beliefs.

As for the other thing...No. First of all you are going on that assumption solely by reason of omittence, ergo because we didn't say THIS thing then you assume that we believe THAT. And you are pulling Gordon Hinckley's comments again out of context. If you don't mind I'd really like a link to the original Newsweek article you are quoting from and not just from the ex-mormon website that same bit of the quote is from (I looked it up but for some reason I am having a devil of a time finding that exact article)

I'm currently discussing this comment with a LJ friend of mine and he made some very good points that I will pass on. He words them far more directly than I can :) I quote:

" We don't believe in Christ as simply a manifestation of some great, invisible God-force, which is basically what the paganism-and-neo-platonism-infused apostate Christianity determined. It's well-known in historical circles that post-Apostolic Christianity absorbed a lot of pagan Greek philosophical concepts which contradicted original beliefs (for instance the idea of a god without body, parts & passions is directly contradictory to the OT description of a God with all those things).

" Also, they always argue that point of view by citing the one scripture that calls God a spirit. Well there are a lot of other scriptures that refer to him as a "man" a "fire" and "love." So which is it? Do we just pick-and-choose, because that's what they do? "Ummm...we like the SPIRIT one, so we'll go with that and ignore the others."

And of course there's the part in the Torah where God warns the people that if they don't follow his Laws, they'll be PUNISHED by being led to worship gods without body, parts or passions. The exact verse is in Deuteronomy 4:28. It specifically references idolatry, but the description of the "gods" they'll worship is also telling: "And there ye shall serve gods...which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell." And the statement (made by Gordon B. Hinckley) simply means that we don't worship the same Christ that they have imagined. We think of him differently. He's Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God, but he's not the avatar (a pagan concept by the way) for some faceless entity. He wouldn't mock idolatry by pointing out that the idols can 't see, eat, hear or smell if the Lord didn't do those things... "

Also if you look at the Catholic version of Christ, it differs from the Baptist version. And neither worship the Quaker version of Christ. And so on and so forth. So...which faith has the correct version of Christ then? Perhaps you should all ask yourselves which Christ you choose to worship. I personally choose the one who is the Son of God and the Savior of the World, the same who as I mentioned before, suffered in the Garden, died on the Cross and then ascended to his Father in Heaven.

Stop making it complicated. All that leads to is confusion and the Devil is the author of confusion. Keep it simple :)
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[User Picture]From: avallach
2006-05-23 01:19 am (UTC)
...ok, ill just respond to your last paragraph then, to keep it simple.

Q: is Mormon the best kind of Christian if so why?
A: Mormons are not Christians.

im not being trite...i just dont have the patience to read all that;) maybe some other time.
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-23 01:39 am (UTC)
:) Very well then. No hard feelings. Like I said to warmth below. we'll just have to agree to disagree then
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From: h1s_songb1rd
2006-05-22 04:36 am (UTC)
Most Mormons I know are wonderful people. But Mormon doctrine is nothing like Christianity. It's a lie. I think that excludes it from being better. However, some "Christians" can be real jerks, which doesn't look good on Christianity. We're all human, though, and we need a Savior. That's why Jesus, who was fully God and fully man, and who lived a perfect sinless life, died on the cross.
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-22 11:00 pm (UTC)
I believe that lie to be truth, this_is_warmth. But I cannot change your opinion on it, I cannot force you to understand things as I do and I have no desire to take away your right to believe and worship how you please. I have argued my points ad naseum and I don't really know I have anything further to add.
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From: h1s_songb1rd
2006-05-22 11:17 pm (UTC)
It's absolutely impossible for Mormon doctrine and Christian doctrine to both be true. It's okay, though. I don't expect you to add anything.
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[User Picture]From: sweet_gardenia
2006-05-22 11:24 pm (UTC)
*nods* Then we must agree to disagree on that point :) fair enough
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From: majentas_skye
2006-09-13 07:53 am (UTC)
j0idvivr,

Please tell me where you get the idea that the priesthood is essential for eternal life? Is it from an LDS doctrine? If so, then imagine someone not in the LDS church trying to find the answers... They will not find the same answer, because the Bible teaches that it is thru Christs blood that we find Eternal life, and NOTHING else will bring us there..

The priesthood gives LDS members "powers" and to literally pray for them with "thier power"... But Christ dosnt teach us to be this way, He asks us to be as Children, He is the only person with the power, we lift our friends up to Christ in prayer (instead of being like my uncle, and praying over my brother "I bless you Lewis,with MY power of the melchezadik preisthood")... If we can submit to Christ, there is no need for Priesthood, because Christ took the place of ALL that is needed... If we can stop thinking we can do it ourselves, and understand what Christ did FOR us, it will make much more sense to you. It is sad to think an old lady living alone in the LDS church would feel stranded if she were so sick she needed to call and wait for Priesthood holders to get to her house to give her a blessing..... If she could give it ALL to Christ, she could rest in peace as Christ worked on her.

Anyhow, this is my 1st post, and its 1am... Enjoy :)
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